Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 14:28:23 GMT 8
If it free trial count me in..I'm quite interested in this QF..lol Just give me a call. Make an appointment with me and get it done. Need to sign an agreement on this. Thanks
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 14:34:14 GMT 8
You have 8 - 16 maps in most piggyback. You must also understand how a PB works. It is a signal interceptor/modifier. It still depends mostly on the decision of the ECU and disregard lots of conditions and logic of the original ECU. The original ECU comes with 2 areas: Computing Logics and Data. We only can modify the data section. The data sections consists more than 300 maps. For all different purposes. We don't touch all of them. If we go back to the basic engine, to make power, we tweet with the Air/Fuel Ratio and the Ignition Timing. That is the basic since the Caburettor time. Modern engine has CVVT, launch control, etc. These are more difficult things to do. All these are in the Original ECU and as long as you have the information and knowledge, you can play with them. We are not a car manufacturing country, that is why we find it difficult to gather information on the logic of the Engine Management. For Japanese and European, they are fully informed and thus they switch to this technology instantly. However, we are not too behind the world in OEP. I have achieved some remarkable result as well for the first to crack Mitsubishi Colt Version R and Lancer CS5 1.8 Turbo. I can do Nissan, Suzuki and Mazda. Fourth Country in the world after Japan, Korea and USA. Now in the midst of cracking Honda, will be the 4th too. Hi Joey, Sorry. I may have missed the reply. But what exactly are u changing in the QF. A/F Maps? Sensor readings? By the way, ECU don't "learn"...no commerical computer has "AI" to learn anything, its still in development. However computers are now based on multi systems feedback to adapt and adjust back to its orginal pre-program settings..ie Fuzzy-Logic systems. So if u change something another sensor will pick it up, inform the ECU which which tries to conpensate and go back to stock. Unless you rewrite the programming or trick all the necessary sensors across all rpm bandwidth. There's no outright benefit. Because it will always revert back to your A/F ratio of 14.3:1 You are right! Fuzzy logic is the correct term but in forums, most people refer it to 'self-learning'. Its actuall Adaptive Memory if you read it from the scanner. Yes, I rewrite the data portion of the ECU. I can't rewrite the program logic. So if the base data reference has been changed by me, the ECU will only take reference to it. The target lambda (14.3:1 or 0.98 lambda) that you mention is only applicable if you are in cruise mode, or there is no change to the input signals. Then the ECU will try to go to this preset 'ideal' condition. Even though, I am able to change this figure. You are quite knowledgeable in this area. Happy to discuss with you.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 14:36:58 GMT 8
Seeing is believing. Actually, nowadays, seeing cannot be fully trusted as well. Just like if you buy a used car, the mileage on the odometer can be adjusted. Dyno charts can be tweeted as well. The best way is still to QF you car and try it for 30 days. That is most reliable. If QF is not effective or to your expectation, there is no $ lost by you at all. Just come back to do a revert back to original.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 14:49:31 GMT 8
From my PM: "Hi Joey,
Is this OEP only based on the matrix for the Air/Fuel Ratio and the Ignition Timing?
If yes, does it mean that the matrix you have is the optimum for low, mid and/or high end?
How was this matrix derived if you can share?
Hoping to learn and understand more. Thank you. "
The AFR and Ignition Maps are 3D maps. The x and y axis are usually RPM and Air (pressure or flow volume). However, there are many of these similar maps in a single ECU. Each take charge of a different situation, most of these maps are factor maps. There are also before burn maps and after burn maps.
How I do a base setting job is to hook up the engine with my logging device which give me the reading for Throttle, Injection, Air, etc. Most important is the wideband O2 sensor. I do have a target to work towards but it varies on the type of vehicle/engines and also the climate when I was doing the tuning. If I am doing it on a dyno, then it is easier as I am able to read the torque and HP at different RPM range. However, dyno is only on WOT and thus I still need to do road tuning for the mid and low end (part throttle).
I will usually arrive at a satisfactory QF map after doing about 5 vehicles for each model. Therefore, QF maps are adjusted over the full range of driving situation. I don't stop here but keep studying the engine. If there is any new maps that I discover or new way of tuning this engine, I will improve my QF maps with it. There is no fine tuning for QF. However, I do it FOC for my regular Customers who supported me by maintaining his car totally with me. This is the way I repay them for their strong support.
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Post by mutantyep on Jan 17, 2011 15:17:11 GMT 8
Roughly how long does our KIA cars ECU need to relearn(readapt) each time it is being reset? Eg. take out battery for 20 minutes.
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Post by nite2nite on Jan 17, 2011 15:44:11 GMT 8
Taking out the battery doesnt mean can reset the ECU....
The true way to reset is using OBD scanner or reader and do the resetting from there.
As for the layman term (relearn) of ECU, from what I heard from a few bros, it is usually ard 2 weeks.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 16:17:22 GMT 8
Roughly how long does our KIA cars ECU need to relearn(readapt) each time it is being reset? Eg. take out battery for 20 minutes. About 1 Fuel Tank of Petrol.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 17, 2011 16:19:43 GMT 8
Taking out the battery doesnt mean can reset the ECU.... The true way to reset is using OBD scanner or reader and do the resetting from there. As for the layman term (relearn) of ECU, from what I heard from a few bros, it is usually ard 2 weeks. Adaptive Memory is volatile memory. So if you cut the power supply to it, it will be wipe out. It has it's own power supply line. Easiest way is to remove the ECU fuse from the 2 fuse boxes (engine compartment and underneath the dashboard) for 10 sec. If you want to be sure, step on the brake to light up the brake bulbs to drain the capacitors.
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Post by MindBox33 on Jan 17, 2011 17:27:55 GMT 8
We want to bring out the limitation to our cars. What's the use of getting a performance car. Be realistic, my friend. We don't earn $10000per month. That's why u did QF too, right? agreed. i am always realistic like u when i still stick to korean rides these yrs. so when i did my QF, i am very realistic on wat it can give me when bro joey told me abt QF. i an contented w the result till today. if i really got 10000/mth job, i will also b realistic to get a much more beta car too. i believe when QF is launched many yrs back.. we are promised realistic result but many really misinterpret wic bro joey keep explaining time fr time again..
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Post by tanjm348 on Jan 17, 2011 18:21:10 GMT 8
Hi Joey, Sorry. I may have missed the reply. But what exactly are u changing in the QF. A/F Maps? Sensor readings? By the way, ECU don't "learn"...no commerical computer has "AI" to learn anything, its still in development. However computers are now based on multi systems feedback to adapt and adjust back to its orginal pre-program settings..ie Fuzzy-Logic systems. So if u change something another sensor will pick it up, inform the ECU which which tries to conpensate and go back to stock. Unless you rewrite the programming or trick all the necessary sensors across all rpm bandwidth. There's no outright benefit. Because it will always revert back to your A/F ratio of 14.3:1 You are right! Fuzzy logic is the correct term but in forums, most people refer it to 'self-learning'. Its actuall Adaptive Memory if you read it from the scanner. Yes, I rewrite the data portion of the ECU. I can't rewrite the program logic. So if the base data reference has been changed by me, the ECU will only take reference to it. The target lambda (14.3:1 or 0.98 lambda) that you mention is only applicable if you are in cruise mode, or there is no change to the input signals. Then the ECU will try to go to this preset 'ideal' condition. Even though, I am able to change this figure. You are quite knowledgeable in this area. Happy to discuss with you. Hi Joey, Thanks for the compliments. I'm not really that knowledgeable. Infact I have already seen Harmony's ad on the free "Rev" mag a few weeks ago on the QF & custom tuning. I want to find out more, because if its going to be just tricking the sensor readings, there's no point doing it. To be frank I'm interested, but I'm more interested in custom tuning which cost $800 as per your ad. I assume you are rewritting A/F ratio across the whole RPM range? Will the RPM range across the 2-stage CVVT opening be tune-able as well?
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Post by Lao Beng on Jan 18, 2011 8:58:48 GMT 8
You are right! Fuzzy logic is the correct term but in forums, most people refer it to 'self-learning'. Its actuall Adaptive Memory if you read it from the scanner. Yes, I rewrite the data portion of the ECU. I can't rewrite the program logic. So if the base data reference has been changed by me, the ECU will only take reference to it. The target lambda (14.3:1 or 0.98 lambda) that you mention is only applicable if you are in cruise mode, or there is no change to the input signals. Then the ECU will try to go to this preset 'ideal' condition. Even though, I am able to change this figure. You are quite knowledgeable in this area. Happy to discuss with you. Hi Joey, Thanks for the compliments. I'm not really that knowledgeable. Infact I have already seen Harmony's ad on the free "Rev" mag a few weeks ago on the QF & custom tuning. I want to find out more, because if its going to be just tricking the sensor readings, there's no point doing it. To be frank I'm interested, but I'm more interested in custom tuning which cost $800 as per your ad. I assume you are rewritting A/F ratio across the whole RPM range? Will the RPM range across the 2-stage CVVT opening be tune-able as well? where is your dogs avant.
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Post by tanjm348 on Jan 18, 2011 12:44:41 GMT 8
My dog avatar........when for eye check up.... I hire the "banana" as part time
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Post by guardian on Jan 18, 2011 12:57:24 GMT 8
Cross eye dog. What about cross eye rat. Next big thing in germany after Paul and "Heidi" klum.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 18, 2011 14:58:20 GMT 8
[quote author=tanjm348 board=teamkoup thread=20168 post=326269 time=1295259670 Hi Joey, Thanks for the compliments. I'm not really that knowledgeable. Infact I have already seen Harmony's ad on the free "Rev" mag a few weeks ago on the QF & custom tuning. I want to find out more, because if its going to be just tricking the sensor readings, there's no point doing it. To be frank I'm interested, but I'm more interested in custom tuning which cost $800 as per your ad. I assume you are rewritting A/F ratio across the whole RPM range? Will the RPM range across the 2-stage CVVT opening be tune-able as well?[/quote] The CVVT control is separated from the AFR maps. The AFR maps will react according to the RPM and amount of Air, so if the CVVT is activated, the AFR map will just behave accordingly.
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Post by mutantyep on Jan 18, 2011 19:32:16 GMT 8
Roughly how long does our KIA cars ECU need to relearn(readapt) each time it is being reset? Eg. take out battery for 20 minutes. About 1 Fuel Tank of Petrol. Ok thanks. Now half tank thru, noticed fuel consumption go up abit for same driving pattern.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 26, 2011 20:58:58 GMT 8
Just don't a bro's Koup, QF Free Trial. Maybe can seek some feedback on the result.
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Post by henrickrothsman on Jan 27, 2011 0:32:37 GMT 8
In response to this thread. I've done a number of things to my Kia Koup 1.6A. Some may be pretty controversial, might even have a counter effect on my performance. But it's all trial and error i guess since it's a fairly new car.
UTR Power Charger 5000 & 6000 (with 0 AWG cable), lightweight crankshaft pulley, auto charger from Night Concepts (basically attached to your brake line acting as a vacuum - sort of a way to cheat the ECU), Fujita open pod CAI, exhaust (i won't elaborate further due to certain reasons), and finally the OEP by HM.
Having different trial and errors including an Apollo kit form Mcwell V (very bad choice). Anyway difference between pre-OEP and post. Due to my set-up, low ends are pretty bad, kicks in only after 40km/hr. The OEP did help quite a fair bit, throttle response is definitely better. Saves you money from adding in all the Throttle control etc, especially for the 1.6 cars where there's no E-throttle. So installing a throttle controller is going to be a real pain, not only hard to find. I believe adding any of these or even a sprint booster would be negligible. Difference can be felt already at 20-30km/hr, instead of 40km/hr. I'm not going by RPM for now cause i believe in the cars ability to run when driving economically, e.g between 2000-3000RPM and if i were to run it at 4000 RPM there would definitely be significant difference than compared to stock. But yea better throttle response and pick up with OEP, feels like your cars being pushed forward a lot more than before. Today's the first day, definitely expecting more the next couple of days, will post it up.
Looking towards dyno when i'm done with the car. My goal is to push this car to its furthest given its 1.6A DOHC engine. IMO it is really quite a sub-par engine/drivetrain, to make it worse, it's an automatic. However the convenient manual override makes the drive to modify more worth it i guess.
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Post by Lao Beng on Jan 27, 2011 9:22:57 GMT 8
In response to this thread. I've done a number of things to my Kia Koup 1.6A. Some may be pretty controversial, might even have a counter effect on my performance. But it's all trial and error i guess since it's a fairly new car. UTR Power Charger 5000 & 6000 (with 0 AWG cable), lightweight crankshaft pulley, auto charger from Night Concepts (basically attached to your brake line acting as a vacuum - sort of a way to cheat the ECU), Fujita open pod CAI, exhaust (i won't elaborate further due to certain reasons), and finally the OEP by HM. Having different trial and errors including an Apollo kit form Mcwell V (very bad choice). Anyway difference between pre-OEP and post. Due to my set-up, low ends are pretty bad, kicks in only after 40km/hr. The OEP did help quite a fair bit, throttle response is definitely better. Saves you money from adding in all the Throttle control etc, especially for the 1.6 cars where there's no E-throttle. So installing a throttle controller is going to be a real pain, not only hard to find. I believe adding any of these or even a sprint booster would be negligible. Difference can be felt already at 20-30km/hr, instead of 40km/hr. I'm not going by RPM for now cause i believe in the cars ability to run when driving economically, e.g between 2000-3000RPM and if i were to run it at 4000 RPM there would definitely be significant difference than compared to stock. But yea better throttle response and pick up with OEP, feels like your cars being pushed forward a lot more than before. Today's the first day, definitely expecting more the next couple of days, will post it up. Looking towards dyno when i'm done with the car. My goal is to push this car to its furthest given its 1.6A DOHC engine. IMO it is really quite a sub-par engine/drivetrain, to make it worse, it's an automatic. However the convenient manual override makes the drive to modify more worth it i guess. how many BHP now?
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 28, 2011 0:01:55 GMT 8
In response to this thread. I've done a number of things to my Kia Koup 1.6A. Some may be pretty controversial, might even have a counter effect on my performance. But it's all trial and error i guess since it's a fairly new car. UTR Power Charger 5000 & 6000 (with 0 AWG cable), lightweight crankshaft pulley, auto charger from Night Concepts (basically attached to your brake line acting as a vacuum - sort of a way to cheat the ECU), Fujita open pod CAI, exhaust (i won't elaborate further due to certain reasons), and finally the OEP by HM. Having different trial and errors including an Apollo kit form Mcwell V (very bad choice). Anyway difference between pre-OEP and post. Due to my set-up, low ends are pretty bad, kicks in only after 40km/hr. The OEP did help quite a fair bit, throttle response is definitely better. Saves you money from adding in all the Throttle control etc, especially for the 1.6 cars where there's no E-throttle. So installing a throttle controller is going to be a real pain, not only hard to find. I believe adding any of these or even a sprint booster would be negligible. Difference can be felt already at 20-30km/hr, instead of 40km/hr. I'm not going by RPM for now cause i believe in the cars ability to run when driving economically, e.g between 2000-3000RPM and if i were to run it at 4000 RPM there would definitely be significant difference than compared to stock. But yea better throttle response and pick up with OEP, feels like your cars being pushed forward a lot more than before. Today's the first day, definitely expecting more the next couple of days, will post it up. Looking towards dyno when i'm done with the car. My goal is to push this car to its furthest given its 1.6A DOHC engine. IMO it is really quite a sub-par engine/drivetrain, to make it worse, it's an automatic. However the convenient manual override makes the drive to modify more worth it i guess. how many BHP now? You are the more experience and trusted one here compare to other forumers. I can see that. Why not you come and have a try and your review (whether good or bad) will be most beneficial to all!
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Post by corgel on Jan 28, 2011 8:59:41 GMT 8
how many BHP now? You are the more experience and trusted one here compare to other forumers. I can see that. Why not you come and have a try and your review (whether good or bad) will be most beneficial to all! lol...
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Jan 28, 2011 19:33:38 GMT 8
I am serious!
No point discussing from the ring side. Put on the gloves and jump into the ring. The good things about this are: it's not going to hurt and it's not going to cost you any money!
100% safe! Better than Durex!
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Post by themostextreme on Feb 1, 2011 14:36:17 GMT 8
In response to this thread. I've done a number of things to my Kia Koup 1.6A. Some may be pretty controversial, might even have a counter effect on my performance. But it's all trial and error i guess since it's a fairly new car. UTR Power Charger 5000 & 6000 (with 0 AWG cable), lightweight crankshaft pulley, auto charger from Night Concepts (basically attached to your brake line acting as a vacuum - sort of a way to cheat the ECU), Fujita open pod CAI, exhaust (i won't elaborate further due to certain reasons), and finally the OEP by HM. Having different trial and errors including an Apollo kit form Mcwell V (very bad choice). Anyway difference between pre-OEP and post. Due to my set-up, low ends are pretty bad, kicks in only after 40km/hr. The OEP did help quite a fair bit, throttle response is definitely better. Saves you money from adding in all the Throttle control etc, especially for the 1.6 cars where there's no E-throttle. So installing a throttle controller is going to be a real pain, not only hard to find. I believe adding any of these or even a sprint booster would be negligible. Difference can be felt already at 20-30km/hr, instead of 40km/hr. I'm not going by RPM for now cause i believe in the cars ability to run when driving economically, e.g between 2000-3000RPM and if i were to run it at 4000 RPM there would definitely be significant difference than compared to stock. But yea better throttle response and pick up with OEP, feels like your cars being pushed forward a lot more than before. Today's the first day, definitely expecting more the next couple of days, will post it up. Looking towards dyno when i'm done with the car. My goal is to push this car to its furthest given its 1.6A DOHC engine. IMO it is really quite a sub-par engine/drivetrain, to make it worse, it's an automatic. However the convenient manual override makes the drive to modify more worth it i guess. No offend bro. To me it's wasting time and wasting $$$. If u really wan to "test-the-limit", TC is the only way. Do it once-and-4-all and full stop. The $$$ that u did your trial-&-error is enough to fix a proper set-up TC liao. Anyway just my view. Pls ignore this if it sounds nonsense 2 u.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Feb 2, 2011 16:14:05 GMT 8
In response to this thread. I've done a number of things to my Kia Koup 1.6A. Some may be pretty controversial, might even have a counter effect on my performance. But it's all trial and error i guess since it's a fairly new car. UTR Power Charger 5000 & 6000 (with 0 AWG cable), lightweight crankshaft pulley, auto charger from Night Concepts (basically attached to your brake line acting as a vacuum - sort of a way to cheat the ECU), Fujita open pod CAI, exhaust (i won't elaborate further due to certain reasons), and finally the OEP by HM. Having different trial and errors including an Apollo kit form Mcwell V (very bad choice). Anyway difference between pre-OEP and post. Due to my set-up, low ends are pretty bad, kicks in only after 40km/hr. The OEP did help quite a fair bit, throttle response is definitely better. Saves you money from adding in all the Throttle control etc, especially for the 1.6 cars where there's no E-throttle. So installing a throttle controller is going to be a real pain, not only hard to find. I believe adding any of these or even a sprint booster would be negligible. Difference can be felt already at 20-30km/hr, instead of 40km/hr. I'm not going by RPM for now cause i believe in the cars ability to run when driving economically, e.g between 2000-3000RPM and if i were to run it at 4000 RPM there would definitely be significant difference than compared to stock. But yea better throttle response and pick up with OEP, feels like your cars being pushed forward a lot more than before. Today's the first day, definitely expecting more the next couple of days, will post it up. Looking towards dyno when i'm done with the car. My goal is to push this car to its furthest given its 1.6A DOHC engine. IMO it is really quite a sub-par engine/drivetrain, to make it worse, it's an automatic. However the convenient manual override makes the drive to modify more worth it i guess. No offend bro. To me it's wasting time and wasting $$$. If u really wan to "test-the-limit", TC is the only way. Do it once-and-4-all and full stop. The $$$ that u did your trial-&-error is enough to fix a proper set-up TC liao. Anyway just my view. Pls ignore this if it sounds nonsense 2 u. There's always different stages for car mods and different caliber of car enthus. You cannot expect every to TC right away. I believe you reached this conclusion after many experiences, trial and error yourself. Given the first day, you will not jump into TC your car too. Modding is a process. Enjoy the journey and learn from it. Most of us ended up dekitting after we reached our target. That's modding!
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Post by speed7188 on Mar 14, 2011 21:43:38 GMT 8
uni-chip at drive knn apollo kit n much more legal item 1.6/A
2.0 u can haf throttle control. dun listen to the old n out dated beng idea. as he know nut in legal mod as he wan more power n legal cant gib
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Post by speed7188 on Mar 14, 2011 21:45:28 GMT 8
if old beng is experience in mod vehical den i dunno wat workshop ppl call?
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