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Post by kentang on Mar 16, 2010 17:46:16 GMT 8
My car is due for the 30K servicing. Finally I took the courage to leave C&C (because of warranty) and go to Harmony for my 30K servicing since they are currently having promotion. When I arrived, inform the service staff, I needed a 30K servicing + engine flush + change platinum spark plug + tyre rotation. The staff told me we will inspect your car then recommend the required service, will not anyhow recommend one. But for the engine flush she say can proceed. When asked about the price, she say it’s $50 instead of $34 in the website. So after calling their boss, they say promotion over but just extend it for me only. I left the car at the workshop as I have to go to the work. After 10mins, the service staff call me to give the recommendation. Tyre rotation $25 , General Servicing $69, Engine Flush $34, Throttle Body cleaning $65, ATF Flush $88, Brake Flush $38, spark plug only got Brisk plug $138. That will be $457 before GST. I had a shock, sending to C&C will definitely cost much lesser. Of course less things done (But are all this necessary?) When asked, the reply is this oil black that one dirty so recommended to do else if never do the thing spoilt need to pay even more for the repair. I really feel I have send my car into a “Black Shop”. Firstly price don’t tally with website, secondly when want to change normal plug, say don’t have then recommend high end plug, thirdly recommend to perform lots of service by “fear tactic” (Don’t perform this what if this one spoilt, don’t save a bit for repair not worth……..), lastly when I say I wanted to pull out from the servicing, was informed that they already started work. So I say “what you start I pay for it, then the rest I don’t want”. Unfortunately they start with the engine flush and pulling out will means I will getting back dirty oil after flushing. After some debate, they decided that they will not charge me for the flush (Of course dirty engine oil also). When I return to pick up my car, all is fine. To my horror, when I open up my bonnet oil was splattered all over the place, from alarm speaker on the left to the battery on the right there are hundreds or thousands of oil droplet. What the hell did they do to my car??? Joey, although you have done an excellent job for my car’s QF previously. But I will never ever go into harmony again. Sorry for the negative post but this is exactly what my feelings are. Extremely disappointed.
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Post by Harmony-Edric on Mar 17, 2010 10:29:04 GMT 8
Hi bro, Firstly, before you label us as a black shop maybe you can refer to the posts in the technical threads, $69 threads, all the services have been recommended before to our fellow forumers at the SAME EXACT price.
Secondly, maybe you could understand further why we even recommended these services. Its a recommendation, not a threat... Even if you told us that you just want to rotate your tires for $25 in the end of the day we'll always serve you with a smile. And i'm pretty sure most of our customers agree to this.
You complained engine stall on aircon load to my mechanic and service advisor. The trottle body cleaning is supposed to help ease the load on your engine. As you have changed an aftermarket air filter, you cant imagine how much dirt is accumulated in your trottle body. If you have the chance, stick your finger into the piping after your air filter, its dirty... really dirty!
Thirdly, you asked for platinum plug and want to change a normal plug? I apologise that we do not have a platinum plugs for your vehicle's application in stock, thus recommended a silver plug instead.
Do you go to a jewelery store, ask for 1 carat diamond then when the store salesgirl says she doesnt have any more 1 carat and recommends you a 1.5carat and you call them a black shop? Or do you expect them to say sorry no 1 carat and below, how bout you buy gold?
We recommend things that are of higher or equivalent specs, just like everything we use here. We're sorry we didnt just recommend a normal copper OEM plug for your use. (See below explaination of oil splatter - we could have used normal cheap oil instead of PVC Uphostery Shine)
Fourthly, the oil 'splatter' has been checked. Like i initially said, this is PVC shine which my guys apply on every single customer's vehicle after service. Just to shine all your black parts. It shouldn't have been in thousands of droplets though. They air gun to spread and wipe off after. Do you only see them at hard-to-reach places? If so i'm sorry but those areas they cant reach by hand. If you still have any trust in me, smell the oil, it should smell sweet as its suppose to be on Interiors.
Please understand that harmony is as honest as ever, else your car would have already been done with all the services before we gave you any recommendations. There are alot of other workshop outside that dont even recommend anything or does jobs before recommendation and call it a mistake which you will then be required to pay.
Your request for an engine flush and oil change is already confirmed when you were here. Along with our old pricing which we still honor and extend to yourself.. Other services recommended are not performed unless you confirm.. Its just that simple bro.
We regret that our way of operations do not suit your taste and hope this explanation makes you feel better.
Take care and drive safe!
Regards, Edric Lee
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Post by kentang on Mar 18, 2010 0:26:25 GMT 8
Please refer to my reply if you are intrested. Hi bro, Firstly, before you label us as a black shop maybe you can refer to the posts in the technical threads, $69 threads, all the services have been recommended before to our fellow forumers at the SAME EXACT price. Yah if you check, you quote the engine flush for $34, but when I go there the guys wanted to charge me $50. Only when I say that the website put $34 then they check the website and call their "boss" and say the promo over already. But out of good will give me at $34. So is the promotion really over? I guess only you guys know. [/color] Secondly, maybe you could understand further why we even recommended these services. Its a recommendation, not a threat... Even if you told us that you just want to rotate your tires for $25 in the end of the day we'll always serve you with a smile. And i'm pretty sure most of our customers agree to this. Yes the service adviser did emphasize that all these are recommendations. But I really wonder what the basis for your recommendation is? Of course changing/ flushing all the fluids as frequent as possible is definitely better but is this necessary? FYI: I just send my car to C&C for servicing. I got 2 service advisors to advise me on the transmission fluid condition. Both of them insist that the fluid is in good condition and there is no need to even change. They recommend me to change only @40k servicing and said that the transmission fluid will definitely be able to last another 10K base on their experience.
Is C&C service advisor really that incompetent, till they don’t even know if the transmission fluid need replace? If replacement is not required, why do I even have to flush it?You complained engine stall on aircon load to my mechanic and service advisor. The trottle body cleaning is supposed to help ease the load on your engine. As you have changed an aftermarket air filter, you cant imagine how much dirt is accumulated in your trottle body. If you have the chance, stick your finger into the piping after your air filter, its dirty... really dirty! Your service advisor said that they are not certain that the cleaning will solve the problem, only after the cleaning, then they can see if it solve the problem, if not they will have to continue to track the problem (This is the exact reply given, when ask if the cleaning of $65 will solve the problem). FYI: I did not highlight this problem to C&C as I was afraid of another “recommendation of extra services”. But guess what, when I told over the car after the servicing, the problem was gone. Thirdly, you asked for platinum plug and want to change a normal plug? I apologise that we do not have a platinum plugs for your vehicle's application in stock, thus recommended a silver plug instead. Do you go to a jewelery store, ask for 1 carat diamond then when the store salesgirl says she doesnt have any more 1 carat and recommends you a 1.5carat and you call them a black shop? Or do you expect them to say sorry no 1 carat and below, how bout you buy gold? We recommend things that are of higher or equivalent specs, just like everything we use here. We're sorry we didnt just recommend a normal copper OEM plug for your use. Yes I did ask for the $40 dollar platinum plug, but was instead recommended the $138 sliver plug. If you want to use the anthology of the diamond, you are not recommending a 1.5 carat when I ask for a 1 carat. You are recommending a 3.45 carat diamond. Do you see the difference? (See below explaination of oil splatter - we could have used normal cheap oil instead of PVC Uphostery Shine) Fourthly, the oil 'splatter' has been checked. Like i initially said, this is PVC shine which my guys apply on every single customer's vehicle after service. Just to shine all your black parts. It shouldn't have been in thousands of droplets though. They air gun to spread and wipe off after. Do you only see them at hard-to-reach places? If so i'm sorry but those areas they cant reach by hand. If you still have any trust in me, smell the oil, it should smell sweet as its suppose to be on Interiors. I didn't know that my alarm buzzer, wind screen, electrical wiring coolant tank, fan, battery, voltage meter all requires this type of oil. Looks like you guy really set very out standing standards.
FYI: Lots of your shine are all over the place (not the hard to reach places) Seems that I still have to thank you for letting me have the chance to slowly spread all the expensive products from your side onto my lousy, dirty and unless car.Please understand that harmony is as honest as ever, else your car would have already been done with all the services before we gave you any recommendations. There are alot of other workshop outside that dont even recommend anything or does jobs before recommendation and call it a mistake which you will then be required to pay. No CommentYour request for an engine flush and oil change is already confirmed when you were here. Along with our old pricing which we still honor and extend to yourself.. Other services recommended are not performed unless you confirm.. Its just that simple bro. With so many "recommendation" on first servicing with HM, do you think I would want to continue, rather go back and let the agent chop at least they got warranty rite?We regret that our way of operations do not suit your taste and hope this explanation makes you feel better. Take care and drive safe! Regards, Edric Lee [/quote]
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nakshire
FreeLance Seller
Licensed to fart.
Posts: 2,629
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Post by nakshire on Mar 18, 2010 9:13:35 GMT 8
hi kentang, i dun see a point in you complaining... not to side with HM, i've never done my svcing with them before... Firstly when i called Joey yesterday, he explicitly told me that the $69 first time trial is over, and I have to call him directly before going down so that his boss will be notified of the special rate. this one i can vouch, u are not the only one who got this line, i got it too... but Joey was very nice and he said you can have the thing at $69. I think its something well done here. As for your complains, i feel that you are refusing to pay high prices for your servicing. I won't say that you are kiam siap or what, but life is singapore is really hard, and choking up $500 for a service that you think is 'simple' is really too much. However, on the other hand, i believe u have the capability of paying it right? You could have told them to reassure you of a better performing car after that expensive servicing. If not, you can start complaining about them, because they only recommend expensive stuff to you with no change in car's performance. The only thing i see here is that you tried to pull out immediately after seeing the shocking price. This is normal human reaction, but i see no point in u ranting over it and calling others names like a 'black shop' where i genuinely think that HM is not trying to portray themselves this way.I think the term black shop is definitely too strong a word to describe such situation. I'd call this unjustifiable service package. On the other hand, if i were to follow kantang's story, there are also a few qns that I think HM did not handle the situation professionally. 1. Start doing up car without owner's consent Pretty obvious, its either u guys think that singaporeans are too cin cai, or u guys think 'earn more money first'. 2. Overpromising customers When you don't have a certain product to give, why promise then? it only makes your customers unhappy in the end. I believe u guys need repeated servicing. It will always be better if shortage of a product is well made-known of to customers first before agreeing to service their cars. 3. The tone of explanation I see that you are quite unhappy when people flame you. If it is professionally done up, you could have called kantang personally and resolve this conflict amiably. Perhaps a reply of "i'm sorry if everything is done up badly, please come back to my shop for a FOC touch up if you need it" will be a better, humble and peaceful reply... If whatever he needs is out of stock, probably he can wait until the stocks arrive first before going down to HM to do up again. this can be a better solution than to jump into defense right away. Hope this will clear each other's doubts. Hope I did not offend any parties here!
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Post by Harmony-Edric on Mar 18, 2010 12:07:57 GMT 8
Hi Bro Nakshire,
Thank you for your valuable reply.
Agreed that my tone of explanation is probably not the kindness of heart. So sorry for that.
In any case, engine flush at Joey's old price of $34 has already been confirmed with him when he was still at my place. So along with the $69 oil change we proceeded.
He could have just told me that he doesnt want the other recommendations and I would have been more than glad to continue the oil change and engine flush as ordered, instead of confirming an oil change and engine flush and pulling the plug when we're already flushing the engine.
In any case, we have nothing to hide... a black shop doesnt own a 40,000 sqft of workshop space just to cheat our way through...
We are always open to any scrutinizations and negative comments but dont defame us for just recommendations right? Negative comments are the key to improvements... Joey, myself and all our staff appreciate it and always highlight these in our monthly meetings.
Comments or complaints made privately will reply privately. But if he wishes to post it out big here, we definately need to explain ourselves right? so everyone knows what's going on instead of us seemingly hiding ourselves once there is a complain, like most black shop does...
We're trying to explain the point that if any customer is not comfortable with our recommendations its perfectly fine to just say no, there's no wrong or no feelings hurt to reject our recommendations.
Its just that we have everything electronically kept, so if one fine day something goes wrong and its due to our negligence of not checking your vehicle and not informing of any parts requiring change, it will become our fault. This is the only reason why corporate fleet trusts us to maintain their rides as the drivers wont feedback to the fleet manager of any problems faced till its way too late (breakdown or severe damage)
I would like to take the case of the above mentioned transmission fluid as an example... 30k change or text book 40k change, 10k difference is it alot? We check fluids by visible contaminants and finger felt viscosity... dark transmission fluid with traces of metal chips be it 30k or 40k, i'm pretty sure most owners will want to change it?
However, if the owner drives like a feather and after 30k and before oil disintegration period, yet looks nice golden without metal chips, do i have any basis to ask the owner to change? I obviously wont. I dont know how other dealers check it, but this is what my mechanics are trained to do at Harmony.
I do hope this clears the air for all my valued customers who still entrusts us with their rides.
Thank you and have a great day ahead...
Cheers!
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Post by decentboi on Mar 18, 2010 13:31:39 GMT 8
One thing to note. Always pop open the boot to check condition b4 leaving.
Thats what i do nowadays.
Edric, to be frank, service level a bit drop leh. One Sat i drop by to top up nitrogen gas for my tyres, waited 1hr.. Nearly fainted...
About oil splatter, i have seen ur mechanic upfront b4 when they do that. Should not have thousands of droplets as described cause they will wipe if after the air gun. But in my memory, i dun think its PVC shine leh?
To check, who is the mechanic doing his car? There is one i definitely will avoid cause he seems unsure...
All in all, im still quite comfortable with the service there, but as above, i will avoid one mechanic for sure..
As for pricing, to be fair, customer must know what they want. Recommendations are base on experience. SO its up to u if u want it.
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Harmony Motor
Motoring with Peace of Mind - Honesty, Sincerity and Integrity are our beliefs!
Posts: 1,761
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Post by Harmony Motor on Mar 18, 2010 15:29:04 GMT 8
First and foremost - SORRY!
To Kentang - Thanks for your past support and hope that this misunderstanding will not deter you from supporting us. It's storm in a tea cup, don't put it at heart. You know our standard, we are not those squart by the road side or fly by night workshop. Or you won't support us before.
To nakshire - owe you big time bro. Thanks for your help in assisting to explain and also your very constructive criticism.
To decentboi - Please quietly let me know which Mech you will avoid. Because whenever, I inspect the shopfloor, they all have they tails up and very professional. Haha, human nature. Appreciate your comment.
We are not blackshop, that is for sure! Our recommendation is according to our experience and some of the time line for lub and parts has changed by us (through years of experience working with Korean makes). Eg ATF 40k km by the book and I recommend 20k km change 4 litres (almost 8 litres in each AT) and at 40k km do a full flush (8 litres or more). This is because of my experience with Korean AT and changed according to our climate. Of course the above is for people who is very very particular about the prestine condition of their car and are more willing to spend a little bit more to maintain it. However, I cannot force all customers to do it this way. So I recommend that the client change the ATF at 30k km if they are not so particular type. For my own car, I change it every 10k km! Haha, not because it's cheaper for me, but I just like to play with the tiptronic and expect it to respond instantaneously.
We don't really die die follow the book, we are a bit more maticulous in our observation of the engine and thus come up with these recommendations. If you have asked, we will be able to explain to you clearly why we recommend this way. Please don't take it as a threat. But sometime it is very difficult to explain technical things to non-tech person thus the short-cut and lazy explanations. For this, please forgive them. I understand why they do it as I was too like that. Imagine repeating the same story all over again to 20 customers each day!
I hope that in future, if any of the clients have some 'misunderstanding', please call me personally at 9636 9151. I will try my best to be consistent in answering all your doubts.
I would like to reiterate that the promotions which started last year had ended at the end of last year. Please check with us before coming for I understand that you may feel cheated if you are told that the promo is over and price has gone back to normal. But we would like to stress that we are no cheaters.
Thanks for your support and safe driving.
Joey Lim Harmony Motor
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nakshire
FreeLance Seller
Licensed to fart.
Posts: 2,629
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Post by nakshire on Mar 18, 2010 20:21:06 GMT 8
ehh no prob joey. I was the one tht called up for QF desperately that day... hehe
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Post by devilcup on Apr 10, 2010 14:05:03 GMT 8
Shall i give my comment. Hi Kentang, seriously i understand how you feel and i believe some of the members in the forum feel the same too. As a customer of Harmony motor, i do see them make mistake, who doesn't... Anyway after reading all the post, i think i can summary into 3 main issues and 1 big issue 1) Price not consistent 2) Alot of recommandation 3) workmanship and big issue) misunderstand 1) i believe every shop will have price change due to something like stock price change change, marketing strategy change etc. but i believe harmony will cont improve in this area, i admit that they sometime do not have good chain of command. But they have improve i must say. As such, as a consumer, i will always get the price check out first before commiting. this apply to any thing i buy. 2) as a shop, i do want some recommendation for the services. sometimes we are not expert enuff to noe all things. but we have the power to ask more and choose. i understand how worker tok, but they are quite polite to me. just remember at the end of the day, i am spending my money. i must choice wisely. 3) even in good workshop, workmanship is not always gurantee first time right ALWAYS. but i do believe a good shop can offer a good after service if the fault is on their part so in all, this is more of misunderstand and mis comm... i have been servicing my car with them. i serviced my car with smaller workshop too. i think their price is ok. there cheaper option to choose if you noe how to ask anyway i not really helping HM or anyone. i just wanna put facts straight. if really unhappy, do give HM a call first. no flame ok. just my humble 0.000000000000001 cents. i think we are all smart adult
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Post by MindBox33 on Apr 10, 2010 17:56:35 GMT 8
hi all.. its good to share wat u have encounter at HM & i think bro joey always try his best to help any members abt their feedback.
if its good, feel free to share... but if we think its not good, feel free to bring up to discuss or share w other members, rather than name-calling, w intention of flaming.
Thread will be locked with comments being made & explanation being given by both parties. If there is anything further to be discuss, pls contact in private.
Hope all understand. tks
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