revv
Gear ONE
Posts: 59
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Post by revv on Mar 16, 2009 12:02:59 GMT 8
Hi there, anyone try installing a mechanical fuel regulator to a V1? Pls advice.
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Post by psyfool7 on Mar 16, 2009 21:06:31 GMT 8
Ah Wong of TRC recommended me to install on my V1...abt RM300 plus...I always tot fuel regulator only for TC cars...but Ah Wong told me NA oso can use...he said very effective..increase responsiveness/ power...Sumthing abt more consistent fuel flow to injectors?...I oso not sure...
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Post by BluePicanto on Mar 16, 2009 21:58:26 GMT 8
Layman explain.... it's like u squeezing the water tube, the pressure make the same amt of water "shooting" instead of juz flowing..
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Post by psyfool7 on Mar 16, 2009 23:56:44 GMT 8
Hmm..OK..so it makes the fuel flow rate consistent so there would not be a time when the fuel supply is 'starved' under hard driving?.....
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Post by lostwitness on Mar 17, 2009 1:19:38 GMT 8
from my understanding, you'll only need a fuel regulator if you have upgraded your fuel pump and larger injector. and you'll only need to upgrade your fuel pump/injectors when you are on forced induction. for stock engine, regulating fuel flow is better accomplished by tuning ecu mapping (e.g. ECU piggy back/SAFC etc). In short, bolt-on fuel regulator does nothing for non-TC application, only as an engine dress-up. please correct me if i'm wrong..
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Post by Pat308z on Mar 17, 2009 8:54:48 GMT 8
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revv
Gear ONE
Posts: 59
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Post by revv on Mar 17, 2009 10:56:47 GMT 8
Thanks for the advice. Actually I'd this from my old ride therefore thought of transferring to my V1.
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Post by BluePicanto on Mar 17, 2009 18:04:54 GMT 8
from my understanding, you'll only need a fuel regulator if you have upgraded your fuel pump and larger injector. and you'll only need to upgrade your fuel pump/injectors when you are on forced induction. for stock engine, regulating fuel flow is better accomplished by tuning ecu mapping (e.g. ECU piggy back/SAFC etc). In short, bolt-on fuel regulator does nothing for non-TC application, only as an engine dress-up. please correct me if i'm wrong.. But still u'll feel some diff la. Juz very little improvement lo.
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Post by BluePicanto on Mar 17, 2009 18:05:38 GMT 8
Thanks for the advice. Actually I'd this from my old ride therefore thought of transferring to my V1. Since u already had the gadget, juz pay for labour & try it out lo. The most rugi is the labour only wat.
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Post by lostwitness on Mar 17, 2009 19:06:14 GMT 8
i have just been corrected by a knowledgeable bro here that the fuel regulator is applicable to N.A. engine, though V1 fuel rail needs to be modified for installation. but i wasn't given information about how this could benefit our ride. the only reason i can think of is that by restricting the fuel line, flow rate decrease but pressure increase(based on principle of hydrodynamics),and higher fuel pressure offers better atomization of fuel in the combustion chamber. this is a wild guess from me, i will be searching for more info on this. meanwhile, any bro please enlighten us and share your knowledge.
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Post by psyfool7 on Mar 17, 2009 21:49:15 GMT 8
Yes bro..pls do find more info...I want to knw too...Ah Wong said effect is immediate.....he did not mention muz change fuel rail nor ijectors though...
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siqma
Gear THREE
juz sHuT-uP & DrIvE,DrIVe,dRiVe
Posts: 375
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Post by siqma on Mar 17, 2009 22:26:09 GMT 8
What is a Fuel Pressure Regulator?
EFI fuel pressure regulators come in various shapes and sizes but all have the same purpose - to maintain a constant fuel pressure above the intake manifold pressure. The difference in pressure between the fuel rail and intake manifold or differential pressure across the injector should be maintained at a level to suit optimum injector operation.
Why and When do you need to install a Fuel Pressure Regulator?
The installation of an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator allows for the adjustment of fuel pressure to suit larger aftermarket injectors and other engine modifications. They are also necessary to regulate and flow increased volumes of fuel pumped by high flow aftermarket fuel pumps.
Fuel pressure regulator, which works with the fuel pump to maintain a steady pressure relationship between the fuel line side of the injectors and the intake manifold.
Most adjustable regulators are still one to one or close to that, however you can adjust the pressure at idle or full throttle for fine tuning. There is one other type of regulator that is used with aftermarket forced induction. These are rising rate regulators commonly called FMU's (fuel management unit). These regulators increase fuel pressure at a multiplication factor of boost. So instead of messing with complicated computers and injection duty cycles, these systems just increase fuel pressure to add fuel. They go inline down from the factory regulators and only start to add pressure under boost. So when you are off boost, you maintain factory tuning and drivability. Only as you get boost does the FMU begin to increase fuel pressure
Return Flow vs Base Pressure
Ideally a fuel pressure regulator will provide a constant pressure differential across the injectors. Base pressure has been defined as the difference between the fuel rail pressure and the manifold pressure. This is the actual pressure across the injector that affects the amount of fuel flowing through the injector when it is open.
If the base pressure is constant this will aid in tuning by reducing the number of variables the tuner must account for.
The fuel pressure regulator should have the same base pressure at a given setting for all return flow rates through the regulator.
The return flow through a regulator can vary from maximum return flow at idle to approximately 25% of the return flow at full throttle and maximum rpm. For example the test RX7 would return 6L/min at idle and 1.5L/min at 7000 rpm full throttle.
The base pressure is typically tuned at idle when the most fuel is being returned.
If large aftermarket pumps (or high volumes of fuel – eg alcohol based) are used this can mean the regulator is causing a restriction in flow at idle.
This means that when the regulator is being tuned there is an increase is pressure due to the restriction in flow. This is caused by the regulator having to return too much fuel for its design. In effect the base pressure in then being set with a combination of spring pressure and pressure build up due to the flow.
At higher load & rpm there is less fuel being returned through the regulator and the pressure increase due to the restriction in flow will be removed (as the regulator is designed to flow this flow rate) causing a drop in base pressure under these conditions.
This drop is because without the restriction due to too much flow the regulator is only using spring pressure to regulate.
The RX7 tested with twin bosch pumps give a good illustration of this effect with the TREG giving the most stable base pressure and competitors base pressure dropping by up to 4 psi
Bench testing has also confirmed this relationship between regulated pressure and fuel flow.All information from Xspeedwww.xspeed.com.au/tech_features.php?tech_id=24
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revv
Gear ONE
Posts: 59
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Post by revv on Mar 18, 2009 9:10:47 GMT 8
Thanks for the info.
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Post by lostwitness on Mar 18, 2009 12:45:44 GMT 8
Hm... this write-up may be abit too technical for some of us.. I haven't fully capture the main benefit for STOCK engine. What I have gathered so far is still how it can benefit those with larger fuel pump and injectors. And please note that every engine already has a stock fuel regulator. as our fuel pump produce a constant fuel flow regardless of idle or high RPM, our stock regulator will return the extra fuel back to the fuel tank. so in short, we have a fuel regulation which works like a 3-way valve to direct extra fuel back. but the after-market ones i have seen seems to be only a single gate valve with one inlet and one outlet. I guess more clarifications needed by bros here....
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Post by nakata6 on Mar 18, 2009 15:46:14 GMT 8
too troublesome to install a fuel regulator on our cerato. Our fuel regulator is located with our fuel pump. so that means its located at the back. Normally for other cars, the fuel regulator is located in the front, sitting next to the fuel rail. To run an adjustable fuel regulator, you have to do a circulated line for the fuel regulator and route it to the front of your engine. And no, you don't have to touch your fuel rail. Overall, not worth the hassle to relocate our fuel regulator. If you wanna increase fuel flow, go for the easier stuff like fuel pump and use an SAFC to increase the fuel flow. Normally, our injectors/fuel regulator are not tune to max out so it should be able squeeze out a good 10-20% more fuel. But that becomes useless as we don't need such high demand of fuel unless we are running something special in our engine. Cheers!
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revv
Gear ONE
Posts: 59
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Post by revv on Mar 19, 2009 11:57:43 GMT 8
Wow so troublesome...still thinking of go down FK to get them do it. In this case i'll drop the idea... Thanks for the advice.
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Post by nakata6 on Mar 19, 2009 15:43:59 GMT 8
well revv, if FK only charges you $10-20 to do it, then why not..but i really doubt so
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Post by lostwitness on Mar 19, 2009 17:07:09 GMT 8
what about the tuning aspect after installation? it cannot be a plug-and-play device, one setting fits all unit if its a variable flow regulator. should it be tuned using dyno runs to get the optimum fuel pressure across the RPM range? now i am really curious to see the duno results of the before and after installtion. any bro here can post their dyno results?
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Post by Zamorano on Mar 20, 2009 18:50:46 GMT 8
bro, if change fuel regulator, might as well consider a bigger cc fuel injector...sure power !!!
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Post by lostwitness on Mar 20, 2009 19:42:39 GMT 8
bro, if change fuel regulator, might as well consider a bigger cc fuel injector...sure power !!! bro zam, i'm afraid you may be under misconception here. more fuel DOES NOT equate to more power. the equation for more power is: more fuel PLUS more Air = more power. if you do not increase air intake(e.g. forced induction), just adding more fuel will cause your combustion to go very rich(e.g. 11.5), which means you'll lose alot of power. more fuel+ more air= stoichiometric mixture(12.7) = more power(well actually max power is for mixture to be slightly richer, just slightly but for simplicity sake i used stoich) in short, no matter how large your fuel pump/fuel injector is, the amount of fuel you pump into the combustion chamber is still controlled by the ECU A/F mapping which is referenced by the amount of air the car is taking in. no changes to the intake air amount? means no changes to your fuel amount, regardless how big your pump/injectors are.
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Post by TeaNazaR on May 25, 2009 14:32:14 GMT 8
hi broes, i didn't read this thread but got mine installed few mths back. mine v2m, only few mods (cc/cai/vs/vsd) n the afpr was installed inline the fuel rail juz before the engine. after installation next day onwards i got issue cranking after the car has been left like ½ day. its due to pressure set too high. lower down the pressure by few turns then its good. few days after installation, at times i notice fuel smell during cold start in the morning, but only for awhile and no smell the whole day (could b afpr fault fuel leak into vacuum need to check later when have time. so better to get those lifetime warrenty). i think the afpr makes the cold start more richer. so far fc no change but butt dyno tells me that goin up flyover is smooth. usually at 3rpm 100km loaded, i notice i have to hit the pedal more to like ½+ to maintain otherwise it'll drop fast to 70-80km. but now only need a slightly more tap. also accelerate from dead stop when i quickly change from gear 1 to 2 doesnt struggle the engine that much, means i dont have to ride the clutch too long on gear 1 to get the power to change gear 2. i did manually adjust the afpr with a fuel gauge installed on it, no changes to the fuel pressure with or without the vacuum lines connected mayb due to the stock fpr controlled by ecu. but im not sure if we need to take the fp reading from other lines instead of the afpr, do we? i think for stock na cars it doesnt help much as other broes mention here ecu will rule out, also w/o upgrade fuel pump bigger injector. but seems to me it does help to maintain the fuel pressure to the injector to prevent engine starving for fuel on harsh ride when there's low vacuum and restrict the fuel as needed when there's high vacuum. unlike ecu to decide fp by both map/maf and o2 sensor. im still newbie, pls dont hammer me if my 2cents opinion not worth mentioning.
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Post by Zamorano on May 25, 2009 20:57:20 GMT 8
bro, if change fuel regulator, might as well consider a bigger cc fuel injector...sure power !!! bro zam, i'm afraid you may be under misconception here. more fuel DOES NOT equate to more power. the equation for more power is: more fuel PLUS more Air = more power. if you do not increase air intake(e.g. forced induction), just adding more fuel will cause your combustion to go very rich(e.g. 11.5), which means you'll lose alot of power. more fuel+ more air= stoichiometric mixture(12.7) = more power(well actually max power is for mixture to be slightly richer, just slightly but for simplicity sake i used stoich) in short, no matter how large your fuel pump/fuel injector is, the amount of fuel you pump into the combustion chamber is still controlled by the ECU A/F mapping which is referenced by the amount of air the car is taking in. no changes to the intake air amount? means no changes to your fuel amount, regardless how big your pump/injectors are. To get more power actually must do alot of things...I'm just adding that if you change the regulator, might as well change the injectors. Yup i totally agree with you that the ECU needs to be tune to get to the optimize performances. If not no point u change all these things. Our car has limited parts for performance upgrade. For me response is important than BHP or WHP... Enjoy your ride while you can...When its time to change, get a totally performance car , not much headaches to mod.Parts can get easily...
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Post by DGray on May 27, 2009 16:42:02 GMT 8
If reali want to change regulator, go to good workshop as our ride got no return fuel line. Need to do tat aso.
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